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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2267
Location: Chambersburg
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 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Wow chel, thank you for opening up to us like that and I only wish that more people could see that there is some humility behind those who question religions.
I can also say that I have very strong fascination with all religions, and I often seek out sociology books that deal specifically with the subject. Looking at it in purely cultural terms, the need for faith and religion is prevalent among almost every culture. Some, unfortunately, breed violence as more blood has been shed in the name of God than for any other cause, purpose or thing.
I had my own interesting encounters growing up, mainly as a Catholic attending a Baptist school. You wouldn't believe how many people are going to hell (and how unbelievably confused I was about it all). I grew up in part of New York where the Catholic schools were as bad as the public; my parents thought they were giving me a better education in a private school, even if it was Southern Baptist. They'll agree now that was a mistake, but at least for me I was able to gain some perspective on Christian fanaticism. |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 2754
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Coppy,
You poor, poor thing. Of all the places to put a child. Southern Baptists. No wonder you're so special. 
My Grands have started attending a S.B. church, because they thought the Nazerene church they were attending was too extreme. 
I keep waiting for horns to grow out of their head or for them to start dribbling venom!
As for the other. Occassionally, I will reveal parts of my three sizes too small heart. 
Okay, I do it alot.
Just most of the time I edit it out later. The above can stay, I think. You saved it actually--- you acknowledged it before I could pretend it didn't exist.
| postaff wrote: | | They also detach themselves personally from their stories and often are stunned when the response from some readers is to attribute personal motives to their writing. Strangely, we can be a bit naive in not realizing that so many will assume the worst. |
Becky,
I have just begun to read Topix posts from Sunday (I may be here awhile--- folks were busy!) and someone posted a link to Mr. Barnes' extensive career. While I realize reporters try to be impartial, I have to wonder if there was someone who did not appear quite so biased. The tone that many have perceived the article as having, with no rebuttal by FFRF, AND the writing history just looks a little bad.
http://www.writers.net/writers/31854
_________________
I demand euphoria!
Last edited by .45chel on Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2267
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| From WritersNet wrote: |
...[Roscoe] Barnes [III] has written copy for such national non-profit clients as the World Bible Translation Center, Lautman & Co., and Good News Jail & Prison Ministry, among others...
...Since he began writing in 1982, he has established himself as an award-winning journalist, a columnist, a religious writer, a pastor and prison chaplain, an Army veteran, seminar leader, artist, book publisher and a marketing consultant for small businesses...
...Author of Numerous Books and Gospel Tracts...
The titles include:
* Mighty Through God: Biography of Dr. G.D. Voorhis (editor, Dr. G.D. Voorhis Educational Program Inc., 2006)
* The Guide to Effective Gospel Tract Ministry (Church Growth Institute, 2004)
Barnes also is the author of many gospel tracts (religious pamphlets) which are published by some of the leading Christian publishing houses: The Tract League, Christian Light Publications, Herald Press, Pilgrim Tract Society and Grace & Truth.
...Barnes is pursuing a Ph.D. in Church History through the University of Pretoria, South Africa. He has completed graduate work with Boston University and holds a Master of Arts degree from Lutheran Theological Seminary (Gettysburg, Pa.). He earned his Bachelor of Science and Associate of Science degrees (Cum Laude) from East Coast Bible College/Lee University-Charlotte Center (Charlotte, N.C.) He is a graduate and member of the Christian Writers Guild.
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I have no doubt that Mr. Barnes is a talented, well-respected journalist whose stories are often held in high regard, winning awards and receiving recognition from his peers. I also believe he's every bit as capable of detaching himself from a news story and reporting without bias as any other reporter.
But, I'm sorry, looking at his background, I don't think he was an appropriate choice for writing the story on the anti-atheist billboard. There's is a question over the way that story leans, and I have to say that this background doesn't really set the tone for a neutral position when it comes to faith, religion and, more importantly, billboards asking people to (loosely) question their faith or proclaiming that atheists hate America. |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 2754
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Found this on the interwebs
http://evolutionarymiddleman.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-do-christians-hate-america.html
| Quote: |
Why do Christians hate America?
At this time in our nations’ history, we all need to be aware of any persons who demonstrate Un-American tendencies. I’m not sure it’s true that all Christians hate America – but it certainly looks like it. Can anyone explain the following:
Christians favor an overlapping of their faith and our government in clear violation of our Constitution. Is this god belief more important to them than the clearly defined separations that the Constitution demands? When they demand that the 10 Commandments be placed in our public arenas are they elevating these in importance over our Constitution?
Christians demand that our entire country stop its energetic activities and pay homage to their religion at specific times that they hold as holy and obviously more important to them than the welfare of the nation.
Christians list god as the most important thing in their lives – even more than their country. Can we depend on the patriotism of people like this?
Christians only want to Pledge of Allegiance to our flag if it includes “under god”. Again, they put an imaginary being over the country of their birth.
Christians only want to use American money that says “In god We Trust” on it. American currency isn’t good enough for them without the word “god” on it? Would they exchange their dollars for Euros if “god” came off the dollar?
Christians want American schools that say prayers in them. Worse, they have to be prayers to a specific god - demonstrating that it isn't some veneration of value of religion in general.
Christians only vote for a Presidential candidate who declares himself as being with their god. Will they turn traitor if a good American who is non-Christian gets elected? I don’t see how we can be sure.
Christians want to teach creationism in our classrooms. Since all biological science is completely dependent on the underlying Theory of Evolution, our children will fall hopelessly behind the rest of the world.
Christians want to prevent crucial medical research utilizing stem cells from fertilized eggs. They think a zygote with a few dozen cells is equally sacred to a human being with trillions of cells. This could lead to the unnecessary death and disease for millions of truly patriotic Americans.
Christians will only defend our country in times of war because they believe god is on America’s side. Can we trust these people? What if they decide that god is on the side of some other country? Will they fight against us?
I have given 10 very serious charges of potential and actual unpatriotic activities on the part of these cultists. When people put superstitious belief ahead of patriotism, the rest of us can never sleep easy. There will always be doubts about their true loyalty. Is it to us, their fellow countrymen, or to some imaginary being that the rest of us can’t see?
Until we have Congressional hearings into potential Christian traitors, I will suggest that anyone who insists that something called “god” is the most important thing in their lives not be permitted to serve in any position in the United States Government that requires a security clearance.
The utterly ironic fact is that, knowing that they should be the ones under suspicion of hating America, they attempt to turn the tables on true patriots who put the Constitution ahead of a make-believe sky-daddy! I can only guess that they do this to avoid the scrutiny that they so richly deserve and have managed to avoid up until now. |
Yay. We're infamous.
I hope the zealots are happy.
This could get bad.
_________________
I demand euphoria! |
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postaff
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Coppy wrote: | | From WritersNet wrote: |
...[Roscoe] Barnes [III] has written copy for such national non-profit clients as the World Bible Translation Center, Lautman & Co., and Good News Jail & Prison Ministry, among others...
...Since he began writing in 1982, he has established himself as an award-winning journalist, a columnist, a religious writer, a pastor and prison chaplain, an Army veteran, seminar leader, artist, book publisher and a marketing consultant for small businesses...
...Author of Numerous Books and Gospel Tracts...
The titles include:
* Mighty Through God: Biography of Dr. G.D. Voorhis (editor, Dr. G.D. Voorhis Educational Program Inc., 2006)
* The Guide to Effective Gospel Tract Ministry (Church Growth Institute, 2004)
Barnes also is the author of many gospel tracts (religious pamphlets) which are published by some of the leading Christian publishing houses: The Tract League, Christian Light Publications, Herald Press, Pilgrim Tract Society and Grace & Truth.
...Barnes is pursuing a Ph.D. in Church History through the University of Pretoria, South Africa. He has completed graduate work with Boston University and holds a Master of Arts degree from Lutheran Theological Seminary (Gettysburg, Pa.). He earned his Bachelor of Science and Associate of Science degrees (Cum Laude) from East Coast Bible College/Lee University-Charlotte Center (Charlotte, N.C.) He is a graduate and member of the Christian Writers Guild.
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I have no doubt that Mr. Barnes is a talented, well-respected journalist whose stories are often held in high regard, winning awards and receiving recognition from his peers. I also believe he's every bit as capable of detaching himself from a news story and reporting without bias as any other reporter.
But, I'm sorry, looking at his background, I don't think he was an appropriate choice for writing the story on the anti-atheist billboard. There's is a question over the way that story leans, and I have to say that this background doesn't really set the tone for a neutral position when it comes to faith, religion and, more importantly, billboards asking people to (loosely) question their faith or proclaiming that atheists hate America. |
First of all, what do you really know about that Web site? It sounds like a lot of hype. And yes, we are familiar with Roscoe's background. Here's something for people in the forums to consider: Would a confirmed athiest have written a fairer article? Is anyone really neutral in personal opinion on religion? What kind of test should we administer to reporters to vet their religious, personal and political opinions before making story assignments? As posters have demonstrated on this board, religious beliefs are extremely complicated and cover a wide spectrum of many degrees. It would not be fair to make assumptions (based on your or my personal beliefs) about the intensity and focus of Roscoe's beliefs, and then declare him unfit to cover a story. Roscoe's background is quite varied, and covers many more interest areas than are listed on the writers' Web site. I think that makes him a good reporter -- he's curious, interested, respectful and approaches all topics and people without preconceived notions. His presence on our staff is a good balance to the recent college grads with little life or work experience.
I do not and will not ask reporters for their religious and political beliefs before assigning stories. Any reporter can cover any story (unless it involves family members or something like that). The ONLY mistake Roscoe and his editors made in the story was not including the fact that he tried unsuccessfully to reach the ffrf. That's it. The rest of the story was simply a report on the fact of a new billboard going up, and who is behind it and why. Apparently he did a pretty good job of accurately conveying the beliefs of the billboard people. I can understand being angry at the views expressed by the person quoted in the story, but I don't understand directing anger and criticism at the reporter. It was not his job to express skepticism in the story or to use words casting doubt or belittling the speaker.
Becky |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 2754
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Eep.
Well, from viewing the website, WritersNet, it appears Mr. Barnes filled out, or at least helped to flesh out his details.
Maybe it is alot of hype, but it is hype that was put out there with, at the very least, his knowledge.
It is a shame that typing is not able to convey tones, because I feel as though you took this as an attack, whereas it was more an attempt to point out possible conflicts.
I do not expect you to find atheist reporters, nor do I expect you to quiz your reporters on the religious background. I do expect people to realize when they may not be the best candidate for a job and someone who writes bible tracts may not be an ideal candidate for this particular job. On the other hand, he certainly got the hatemongers to open up to him, so good for him.
You have clearly made up your mind on the subject. I'm sorry if you felt attacked.
_________________
I demand euphoria!
Last edited by .45chel on Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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postaff
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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More food for thought:
In my many years of experience in journalism, I've found that when conservatives accuse journalists of being biased against them, they sometimes have a point.
When liberals accuse us of bias, it's because we aren't biased enough in their direction.
An over-generalization, maybe, but I've found it often to be true. |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 2754
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Nice.
Sorry, I'm such a pinko commie liberal, guess my America hating was too obvious to hide.
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I demand euphoria! |
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postaff
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| .45chel wrote: | Eep.
Well, from viewing the website, WritersNet, it appears Mr. Barnes filled out, or at least helped to flesh out his details.
Maybe it is alot of hype, but it is hype that was put out there with, at the very least, his knowledge.
It is a shame that typing is not able to convey tones, because I feel as though you took this as an attack, whereas it was more an attempt to point out possible conflicts.
I do not expect you to find atheist reporters, nor do I expect you to quiz your reporters on the religious background. I do expect people to realize when they may not be the best candidate for a job and someone who writes bible tracts may not be an ideal candidate for this particular job. On the other hand, he certainly got the hatemongers to open up to him, so good for him.
You have clearly made up your mind on the subject. I'm sorry if you felt attacked. |
No problem with your post. I do not feel attacked -- just trying to give a fair answer to the question you raised.  |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2267
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I'm satisfied on the topic; and I'm certainly not angry about it. I suppose us Soapbox people just tend to be a bit suspicious, particularly as many of us are sort outside the local mainstream way of political thinking.
That said, and as far as I'm concerned the issue of Barnes' billboard story can be dropped, I thought I would comment on your bias observation.
I do believe that "the media" in general tends to have a left-leaning slant. Some of this may have to do with the fact that many reporters are, in fact, left-leaning themselves, but that would likely be completely unintentional. That said, I also find that right-leaning bias leans much farther to the right than left-leaning bias leans to the left (if that makes sense). I mean, watching a Fox News report sometimes sends shivers up my spine...
I once read an interesting article, and I apologize because the author's name escapes me, about journalistic bias. The author made the interesting point that perceived bias is really quite unintentional... it all comes down to sources. And I think it's difficult for anyone not in the journalism industry to understand that there are deadlines to meat, and competitors to beat. This often means that some points of view are left out, albeit completely unintentionally, giving a perception of bias because some person or organization couldn't be reached for comment in time.
And yes, I agree that actually reporting that so-and-so was unable to be reached may be a bit redundant. But it probably would have helped in this case because it seems some of us tend to look beyond the surface of the article... oh well!
Thank you for taking the time to respond to us Becky, we do appreciate it. |
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Mavis
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Why do people argue about religion anyway? I know humans have done this for centuries -- but whose opinion has it changed? It is an exercise in futility. People believe what they believe. If someone atempts to foist their beliefs on you, walk away.
My theory is that we need the adrenaline rush we used to get from hunting our food, trying to keep our caves warm and fighting off saber toothed tigers.
We don't have survival issues today for exercising our fighting instinct, so we have to manufacture something. |
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Torgo
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 466
Location: Manos: The Hands of Fate
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| .45chel wrote: | Nice.
Sorry, I'm such a pinko commie liberal, guess my America hating was too obvious to hide. |
Oh, come now! Nobody said that.
POstaff (presumably Becky) was merely providing another way to look at the issue, a means by which to examine our own biases, since we all have them.
This is what I meant when I said earlier that participants in online forums should expect to have their opinions challenged from time to time, and learn to deal with it without getting dramatic and defensive.
The effect of such defensiveness is a chill upon the discourse, at least for the people who care about their relationship with other posters who might - for whatever reason - equate challenges to their arguments with attacks upon themselves personally.
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"The Master would not approve..." |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 2754
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Next time I'll put a smiley face, will that be better?
_________________
I demand euphoria! |
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Torgo
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 466
Location: Manos: The Hands of Fate
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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OMG
That was sarcasm?
*scuttles off in shame
_________________
"The Master would not approve..." |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 2754
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Don't you DARE scuttle off.
Look
LOOK
I'm hypersensitive!!
I'm crying!!
Come scold me!!
Really, I can be quite sensitive at times. A bit snappish and always b*tchy. Someone's got to keep me in check, may as well be you.
_________________
I demand euphoria! |
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