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EL_Jefe_Speaks

Shippensburg church vandalized on Easter

The Shippensburg Old Order Mennonite Church was vandalized between 12:01 and 5 a.m. Easter Sunday.

Someone spray painted the outside of the church at 20 Duncan Road in Southampton Township, Cumberland County, and damaged the inside, according to Pennsylvania State Police, Carlisle. Someone egged the inside of the church, sprayed silly string and spread syrup and bird seed throughout the church.

Anyone with information can call Trooper Jason L. Kuhn at 249-2121 and refer to incident no. H02-1746421.
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This is pathetic. People can’t even enjoy church on Easter Sunday...
even the ones that only go to chuch on easter sunday.
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cookieclaygirl · Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1805 Location: shippensburg

that's horrible....what losers who did such a dirty trick. ppl suck sometimes.

hotdog · Guest

Not that vandalizing is ok but, those that destroy or steal places of worship lack any kind of morals or respect for anything and are heading down a path of self destruction. This individual(s) needs help.

cookieclaygirl · Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1805 Location: shippensburg

i read that the community harmed wants to find out who did it, not to press charges, but to have them come and 'work it off'.....i think that is very smart. make them fix what they selfishly broke.

Alex · Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Chambersburg

One would think this sort of thing might be national news?? Is this not some sort of hate crime??
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alex

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2267 Location: Chambersburg

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2758 Location: Chambersburg

I'm willing to bet that the perpetrators go to church. Probably not that church. But still.

Once again, I agree with Coppy. If more damage had been done, if religious icons had been defaced in a intentional or grotesque manner, if slurs against the members of the church or the religion itself had been painted upon the property then it would be a hate crime.

Personally, I share the South Park belief that most crimes are hate crimes: bullying, assault, rape, car jacking, vandalism, theft. A criminal is of the thought that they deserve your property more than you do or that you don't deserve nice things so they ruin it or, worse still, that you deserve to be harmed. Sounds like hate and feelings of resentment and superiority to me, in any case, it's not good feelings for a person to have.
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Alex · Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Chambersburg

A federal law has been violated:

"Whoever...intentionally damages or destroys the property of a facility, or attempts to do so, because such facility provides reproductive health services, or intentionally damages or destroys the property of a place of religious worship,"

(U.S. Code, Title 18, 248)
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alex

cookieclaygirl · Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1805 Location: shippensburg

from wiki (because i love extra research):

Justifications for harsher punishments for hate crimes focus on the notion that hate crimes cause greater individual and societal harm. In Wisconsin v. Mitchell, the Supreme Court of the United States unanimously found that "bias-motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest.... The State's desire to redress these perceived harms provides an adequate explanation for its penalty-enhancement provision over and above mere disagreement with offenders' beliefs or biases. As Blackstone said long ago, 'it is but reasonable that, among crimes of different natures, those should be most severely punished which are the most destructive of the public safety and happiness.'"[24] It is said that, when the core of a person’s identity is attacked, the degradation and dehumanization is especially severe, and additional emotional and physiological problems are likely to result. Society then, in turn, can suffer from the disempowerment of a group of people. Furthermore, it is asserted that the chances for retaliatory crimes are greater when a hate crime has been committed. The riots in Los Angeles, California, that followed the beating of Rodney King, a Black motorist, by a group of White police officers are cited as support for this argument.[25]

The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously found that penalty-enhancement hate crime statutes do not conflict with free speech rights because they do not punish an individual for exercising freedom of expression; rather, they allow courts to consider motive when sentencing a criminal for conduct which is not protected by the First Amendment.[24]

When it enacted the Hate Crimes Act of 2000, the New York State Legislature found that:

Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them. Current law does not adequately recognize the harm to public order and individual safety that hate crimes cause. Therefore, our laws must be strengthened to provide clear recognition of the gravity of hate crimes and the compelling importance of preventing their recurrence. Accordingly, the legislature finds and declares that hate crimes should be prosecuted and punished with appropriate severity."[26]

Alex · Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Chambersburg

I don't care for defining hate crimes as such. Motivations do lead to actions, but it should be a person's actions that are criminalized and not their motivations.

I think if this had been, say, a black church, or a gay church, we would have heard much more about it.
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alex

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2758 Location: Chambersburg

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2267 Location: Chambersburg

Well, here's a counter-example; about 10 years ago, a number of churches in the south were literally burned to the ground. Some white, most of them black. That sort of the vandalism was denounced as a hate crime, because it's certainly far more than vandalism or even destruction of property. There's no question that those crimes were absolutely horrific, but who is to say that it was based on hate of churches? It may have been some maniac getting his rocks off over burning stuff and churches were simply an easy target because many of them are left vacant for large periods of time.

I don't even know if the perpetrator of those arsons was apprehended, but I know it happened in several states. Nearly anything can be considered a hate crime depending on what the determining cause of such a thing is (if that's even possible).

In any case, this sort of vandalism comes across as dumb teenagers doing dumb things. I don't think anyone should do hard time; but I do hope the perpetrators are caught (and punished).

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2758 Location: Chambersburg

A few kids were caught that set some of the fires. Some were attributed to a rash of copycats.
I believe at least one was retaliation because a white church burned and some non-members burned a black church because they assumed blacks had burned the other church. Then a group of black males heard rumors that white supremacists had organized to burn down black churches and they wanted to retaliate.
Basically it was people looking for a reason to do something dirty and they felt justified. Which is why ya gotta try to let the resentment go. Because your words, spoken in a moment of weakness, can impress upon someone else. You might be the justification someone is looking for.

Stuff always gets blown out of proportion.
Two mullet sportin' country boys become a KKK clan and three black teens become a group of New Jack City style drug dealing bangers. Rolling Eyes

Or a deleted post on Topix becomes a liberal conspiracy to silence your uber-conservative "truth"
OR your candidate doesn't win as many primaries as you want and its a racist or sexist or liberal conspiracy to keep YOU from getting the right candidate. Laughing

Not saying all suspicions are unjustified (the NSA really is wiretapping me!) But sometimes you just gotta 'give it to God', ya know?
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Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2267 Location: Chambersburg

It shows, sadly, that our country has not come as far as it should be, racially... we've come a long way, but not quite as far as we should Sad

I'm sorry, I'm an apologist for American race relations. I think African Americans deserve their fair shake, and if that means some Affirmative Action, than I support it. I know its an unpopular position in a nearly all-white Anglo-Saxon protestant area such as this, but I believe it as strongly as anything else.

Go ahead, tear me down. I don't have anything to worry about racially, I'm white. No one looks at me funny at the grocery store, I never get pulled over for no reason... if something bad happens to me I never have to concern myself with things like race or religion or politics... because everyone else around me is a Goddamn white, protestant European do-gooder.

Yep, that's right... I'm the better person. I'm not standing atop my majority mountain and declaring my superiority over everyone with skin darker than mine, with religions "weirder" than mine.

I'm THAT person. And I'm proud of it.

AnonyMouse · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 405