The Public Opinion Soapbox

AnonyMouse · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 356

I realize that I'm playing with fire here by opening this subject, but here goes...

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Chambersburg

walrus1 · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 57

Although what he said was reprehensible, almost everyone has said things in a private conversation when angry that they wouldn't normally say. It was a private conversation, which makes it different then the Imus thing, to me. I think it isn't all that surprising, he was convicted in the involvement of killing another person and he was in a gang and he is no saint, so the language doesn't surprise me. I have lived in many areas and have known people from all walks of life and if I am reading this right I think I have known people before who think like he does that the N word isn't a racial thing, (at least not entirely racist to them) it is equivalant of calling someone white trash. Although in these times a person should know better, sometimes when we are upset and we think the conversation is private we say things we shouldn't. Either way I don't think anyone ever thought he was an angel.... I would tend to think it was racially insensitive more so then outright racist. Yes you can use that word and not be racist, people including comedians do it all the time, although it should probably stop being used entirely, by everyone.

anonymous_coward · Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 472

you can use it as a quote, I don't believe it's ok to use it sarcastically or ironically however. There's a great episode of curb your enthusiasm where larry david gets in trouble after he tells a story where some jerk uses it.

all that being said, I work in a professional environment here, and I've been amazed how much people use the "n" word, tell racist jokes, etc, etc. Living here is like stepping back into 1960.

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Chambersburg

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2487 Location: Chambersburg

I can type pages on this topic, but I 've noticed my posts are rather, um, large. So, I'll just say this:

A friend of mine was telling a story of a traffic incident and in discribing the other driver he used THAT word. Noticing my look of disapproval, he began explaining to me how there is a difference between blacks and Ns (like I'd never heard that before!) I responded, "If the guy wasn't black you would've called him an a**hole or something else, right? When you change the word to "fit" the race, it's racist. Just call the dude an a** and be done with it."

That said, I used the word in my younger days, but only towards white rednecks...you should've seen the response it got! (There is a difference between rednecks and country folk, I hate that people seem to think the two are interchangeable) I could tell ya'll some stories, but then my post would go long like it already is!
_________________
If, lately, it seems as though I've been unreasonable, it is only because I have lost all reason.

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Chambersburg

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2487 Location: Chambersburg

Oooo, Valid point, Coppy!
EXCEPT, country people and rednecks both can be either color. True, I've never actually MET a black redneck, but I s'pose that's probably because of my definitions...Rednecks are the people who burn crosses in people's yards. Rednecks are the people who called my mother to tell her all the things they were going to do to her N-lovin' kid.
Now, you've got people who wear the label proudly and I'd like to think that they would neither burn a cross or call my mother if they have a problem with me.

Now, all of that happened long ago in a time known as the 80's and 90's. Poor me, I got it from all sides. In Atlanta, you were more likely to encounter reverse racism (I don't know why it's reverse, it makes it sound like blacks are the only ones who ever got discriminated against!). In the suburbs you didn't see it much, but any farther out and it could get nasty. Funny thing is, it seemed to be more sinful to be a white "traitor" than an actual black person.

BTW, Coppy, my sister gave me a "white trash" key chain as a joke. I wouldn't refer to myself as such, but it was a joke and I think it's funny so I keep it around. I've also referred to myself proudly as a Cracker or a Jawja Cracker, but I almost got to into a fight when a black person called me a that not in jest.

I can't explain why it's different, but it IS different when someone of your own race calls you a particular name.
Which is why this topic can be so complicated.
_________________
If, lately, it seems as though I've been unreasonable, it is only because I have lost all reason.

Dave · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 155

The use of the N word is racist unless you are black. If you're black, then it can be an endearing term or the nasty term.

It is like that it is OK for me to say certain things about my family but not for someone outside the family.

It is a degrading term. Every race has a degrading terms & we have heard them all.

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Chambersburg

I don't know if it's exactly fair for most white people to get overly sensitive about the race thing. Throughout the course of American history, if there's one group that never really had to worry much about persecution due to their heritage, it's white protestants. It may seem silly, in this day and age, to let what may have happened to someones great-great-great-great-grandfather affect your perceptions today, but racial discrimination certainly isn't a moot point and it's not something really have to worry about if you're white.

Also, redneck has taken on a different term than you suggest Chel. This whole Blue Collar Comedy thing (which is awful in my opinion) perpetuates not only negative stereotypes about rural people, but embraces them. I see trucks with "Proud Redneck" stickers on them. So that's all fine and good, but I refuse to see redneck now as a pejorative term; rather, I think many rural folks consider it endearing.

And such is my problem; while it's ok to be a redneck, since when was it ok to be a dumb hick? Yeah, lets make fun of a Arabs and gay people and stick it to the liberal media for trying to be nice to them. Again, intolerance breeds intolerance and I just don't want to see our society take one step forward and two steps back on the issue. That's when you stop being the "salt of the Earth" and start being part of the problem.

People probably need to stop being concerned about everyone else and think of how they look to other people.

Or, we can just turn off the news and watch Larry the Cable Guy tell fart jokes for an hour.

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2487 Location: Chambersburg

Please...No Larry the Cable guy...I'll be good. Tater Salad was okay tho'. No George Carlin or The Amazing Johnathan but he was decent; he needs some new material.

>sigh< Coppy you're right on many counts, but I think Dave said it best.
This is a great topic that can be complexed by emotions and history. I moved to a new school and helped someone start a Black History club and end up making my mom cry and getting the school newspaper shut down (I write TWO doggone articles and I'm willing to bet the journalism club STILL hates me!) So, I said screw this place and went back to Atlanta. That's when those young ideals of changing the world came crashing down. On the bright side, that school still has a Black History Month and I hear it's less...eventful these days.

It is far too easy to be colored by our emotions and, perhaps, those are the only colors we should be worrying about. Wink

_________________
If, lately, it seems as though I've been unreasonable, it is only because I have lost all reason.

Bobo · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 173 Location: Chambersburg

Coward, I find it hard to believe that you work in a "professional environment" around here and people use the N word so much. I have lived in Franklin County all my life, and have always worked in a professional environment. I don't EVER recall anyone ever using that word, and certainly not in a derogatory way. Sometimes I feel like people just love to make it sound like Franklin Countians are all a bunch of hicks and cavemen. It's not true. Even when I was growing up in a working class household in the 1960s and '70s, my immediate family and friends never used that word. My mother always told us it was wrong.

As for whether using it is always racist, I don't think so. It depends on who's using it and how it's being used. As we all know, the hip-hop community uses the hell out of the word, and often it's being used as a term for black folks BY black folks. I don't especially care for anyone using that word, but I think you have to look at the intent of the person saying it when deciding whether it is racist or not.

QueenofHearts · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 362

walrus1 · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 57

I have lived in Pa, Tenn, S.C., Georgia, Arizona, Ca, Nevada, Hawaii.... and a few other places for different lengths of time and most of those places I heard the "N" word and saw more outright racism then I do here..... The worst was Tenn and Alabama, but that was 20 years ago, I hope things have improved a lot. I can remember going into a dinner in Alabama and the waitress told us she'd serve us but not the "N"s who were with us. I was shocked, it was the 1980s, how could things still be that way. And I've been to a few places in this world were being white is hazardous to your health, opens some eyes and helps a person understand what some people experience.

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2487 Location: Chambersburg