The Public Opinion Soapbox

Silver Bullet · Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Mercersburg

Hey Ya'll. Don't let this one slide by. Voter turn out is VERY important to stop your taxes from almost doubling. They are working hard to try and sneak this in under the radar. Don't depend on everyone else to vote it down. This tax burden will be passed to your children and your childrens children. There is a responsible way to provide a better school for our children and even more important, there has to be a way to keep the building in good shape. You don't just throw away a 40 year old building, like has happened to this one now. Mass irresponsibility! If you are registered to vote you are registered for this election, if not, you have till August 11th to do so. Do your part, SEPTEMBER 9TH, Thank You!!!

Torgo

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2663 Location: Chambersburg

Yes, this "burden" will be passed on to our children, and our children's children by perhaps having a community in Franklin County that may actually go to college.

Silver Bullet, we are well aware of Tuscarora's idiotic mismanagement of their funds... but we're also aware of how much of a crap hole Tuscarora School District is.

And you talk about a "responsible way to provide a better school." What, by continuing to cut programs, watch quality, under-paid teachers walk out the door to better districts and having to choose between textbooks or basic maintenance?

Give me a break; your "children's children" will certainly live in one sad, sad place. There's more important things than having the lowest property taxes in the state.

Silver Bullet · Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Mercersburg

The Master will speak for himself when the time comes! Which has nothing to do with this subject.
It appears you are living a pipe dream in your own little world. Just throw money at the problem and it will all go away! Yeah, right! I guess in another forty years we'll do it again? We need to take care of what we have, taxpayers pockets are not bottomless pits to constantly be helping ourselves to. There must be some responsibility here! However, I'm sure they would welcome a generous donation from you since you feel so strongly about it!
These buildings should never have been allowed to reach this level of deterioration. I understand that the kids need a decent place to learn, and they should already have it.
It is my understanding that St. Thomas elementary has buckets in the halls to catch the rain, how many of us would remedy the problem that way in our homes? Is it so hard to climb up on the roof and fix the leak? Or would that be counter-productive to the cause. Thanks!

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2663 Location: Chambersburg

Wow, the only thing you didn't tell me to do was to "drink the kool aid."

The buildings reached the levels of deterioration that they did because the school board members knew they could never be re-elected in an impoverished school district like Tuscarora if they approved "crazy" projects like "fixing leaks" and "replacing rusting pipes" or "removing asbestos." Those things do, after all <gasp>, cost money.

However, I don't want to sound like some sort of school board apologist; the idiots running that school district without a clue about the environment children need to be educated in is one of the biggest problems. Then again, who runs for the school board anyway? Just another tax-hating member of the community that is Tuscarora... not that taxing really is the solution to our problems, but money talks and numbers speak for themselves: more student excel at a rate that is proportional to the tax revenue.

People live in that school district mostly to be away from society; it's too bad its at the expense of their children's education. And it's partly YOUR FAULT that the school is int he condition it is.

"How hard is it to climb up on the roof and fix the leak?" So, which school board member do you think should have volunteered to that job for free? Why didn't YOU fix it for free??? Perhaps you should look up the costs involved in roofing for large buildings...

ickerus · Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 10

I have written twice to the email address advertised in the flyer. I have got NO response. They are requesting you register for this vote. WHY!!! I am already a registered voter in the State, County, and school district. Why should I even have to register???? I guess if I don't get an answer from the school district, when I go to vote on this mess and they tell me I can't because I didn't register, I will then show them the two unanswered email inquiries I made to them for info. OR AM I READING THE REQUIREMENTS WRONG?

jbhsquestions@tus.k12.pa.us

What a crock!!

Silver Bullet · Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Mercersburg

The powers that be want you to be confused! Thats why they spent $30,000, to have this special election. It could have been "FREE", if they had the question on the ballot in November. But no, that might turn out to many voters and work against their cause, can't have that, NO. $30,000. would have bought a lot of books! Oh, and then there's the $10,000. fee for the Public Relations Retainee, can't forget that. Getting back to your question, IF YOU ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE IN PENNSYLVANIA, YOU ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE IJN THIS ELECTION!!!! But please do bring ID, they could prevent you from voting if you can't prove who you are. Thanks and SPREAD THE WORD!!!

jayak44 · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 5

This referendum business is getting out of hand. I still have not decided how to vote, but the yes side is doing their best to garner my vote. Even at the open house at Mt. View Elementary the other night, there was an announcement made by the "yes" side...with no chance for a rebuttal from the "no" side, which seemed unfair.

The only facts that seem to be overlooked in this situation is

1. The school is in horrible condition, no thanks to the current and past school boards.

2. Taxes will be raised on average $270 (based on the average $180,000.00 home. This increase will be over three years...at $90 a year.

3. When the loan is paid off, the $270 will be taken off the taxes.

4. This tax increase has nothing to do with the teachers efforts for a new contract.

If I had my way, we would get the chance to vote to get rid of all sitting board members who have allowed the school to get into this shape, and get rid of the business manager who seems to know nothing about business!!

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2663 Location: Chambersburg

It's so sad how mean the community is being to these poor teachers, both on the Topix forums and as they spend the entire day trying to show the community that they care.

I'm just so sad about the awful things being said by people clearly ignorant toward the situation. Very sad indeed.

I'm sorry Tuscarora, your children and your educators deserve better than that.

ickerus · Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 10

It is sad when a 20 year old school needs 35 million dollars in repairs. I would think you could build a new school for that, but I guess there are too many greedy contractors and building suppliers looking out for themselves is what would absorb the money. Still, a building in that much need of repair should be leveled and rebuilt.

That being said, I say not with my money or money that I would be responsible to help pay back. I have seen my taxes soar to $3,000 a year from it's original $1,200 less than 20 years ago. That in itself is disgusting yet they want more! If you think that this borrow, tax, and spend process will end if the money is borrowed, you are in a dream world. There will be other needs long before the monies are repaid through taxes. So there will be other tax hikes to pay for what ever the needs. Tuscarora school district can only go to the well just so many times as can St. Thomas Township. You are taxing your tax paying base far too much. We have other bills you know. It is getting very expensive to live in this township and school district. When the market levels off and houses start selling, I'm out of here!!! I can no longer afford to live in this area.

I like to say that I don't really have a dog in this school money borrowing fight. I am retired, live on a fixed income, and I have no kids or grandkids going to this school or any school......so why am I liable (not responsible) to pay this debt if it is approved?? I just want to be retired and enjoy my life. However, it's schemes like this that put a damper on my life and living style. I can't go on a vacation because I have to pay more @#%@*&^!! taxes. Why can't people just mind their own business and leave my money in my pocket where I could probably think of a better way to spend it for myself.

In closing I'd like to say that I worked 40 years of my life. While I was paying a mortage, raising kids and sending them to school, I was paying all my taxes and supported the school district. Now being retired and no kids in school I find that I also have my house paid for. This becomes my piece of the rock and I shouldn't have to pay anything but real estate tax on it. If I rented, I would be paying any taxes as absurd as I am now.

They say, it's only a couple dollars a year increase. Yeah, right! How about all the utilities and food costs. They increase also. So with a measly 2-3% cost of living raise, everything goes up 10-20%. Sorry folks, there is just too much month left over at the end of the money.

BTW......$35,000,000 will buy a lot of buses. Bus the kids to the BIG schools!

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2663 Location: Chambersburg

Ickerus, I'm not sure you're accounting much for inflation. $1,200 to $3,000 in about 20 years is not a far stretch, yet taxes are still very low relatively speaking in this area then elsewhere in the country. Any reason why they'd be comparatively higher is because of the inept spending practices of the school board elected by the community.

The average price for a new high school comparable in size to Tuscarora's, without accounting much for the inevitable growth in years to come, is somewhere in the neighborhood of $70 million. A large, modern, educational facility is not cheap sir. It may sound preposterous to someone earning a modest salary, but $35 million is most certainly a reasonable number considering the repairs necessitated by several things: 1. Poor management of funding over the years, 2. Poor maintenance practices, 3. Poor planning for the future. It is sad that a 20-year-old school needs these repair. Technology and modern facilities are, quite simply, expensive and children should be prepared for life in in the 2000's, not the 1900's.

So yes, when the school district comes out and asks for more money, it's perfectly reasonable to be upset over it. I just think the community is upset for the wrong reasons. Hold your school board accountable for the mismanagement of it's funding. Also, people need to try and keep their emotions in check; I've heard a lot of ridiculous things over the referendum with little regard for facts or reality.

One fact is that the community at large is responsible for the public education of its children, whether you are young, old, retired, single, married, divorced, rich or poor. I know it doesn't seem fair, but if being retired were a get-out-of-taxes-free card, the America just wouldn't work, particularly in an increasingly aged society.

I agree there is a disproportionate ratio between the increase in cost-of-living and increase in incomes. Especially around here; but like I said, there are lot of benefits to being retired in PA and Franklin County's taxes are comparatively low. We're all feeling the pinch of stagnant economy spiraling into recession...

I don't mean to be too argumentative (I've done that enough lately over this and the teacher's strike issue) but I am willing to stand up to this idea that all taxes are unjust and unfair. And the entire community voting No to this referendum (as I'm sure they are) really only hurts the students; the future of our community. Perhaps you'll be even more upset 20 years from now when the problems we ignore today continue to compound more and more and more... to be against any and all taxes is easy. To hold your elected official accountable for your tax money and understand the importance of your tax dollars on the community you live in, and the potential for positive improvement it can make is another thing entirely.

John Chbg · Joined: 27 Aug 2008 Posts: 11

The people have spoken. Perhaps there were some unecessary perks in this proposal. When you think of $269 additional taxes, that's really not that much in today's dollars for our "future" (our children) to be educated. I have never lived in this school district (but grew up in a rival district); however, I know of some very good kids (now adults) that have come out of the JB schools and therefore, the education was worth every penny and then some. When we look at other countries and how far advanced they are beyond America in education (and that is next to their #1 priority-education)we need to take a real hard look at how we are educating our children. To the Board - perhaps the project could be done/proposed in phases, the crucial/most essential items be layed out in Plan I, then a Plan II, III etc. Also, to the residents and parents-you may need to bite the bullet-in the name of our children's education-and PAY for it.

Torgo · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:57 am Post subject:

I think it's pretty clear at this point that anything the district wants to do will need to be done piecemeal, each one small enough to avoid the tax increase trigger for public referendum.

If you have to put it to a popular vote, it will not pass.

The irony here is that the piecemeal approach will not only cost more for administrative purposes, but as each part of the project stretches into the future the overall costs will increase as they outpace inflation.
_________________
"The Master would not approve..."

Muskie · Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 1 Location: PA

Out of the 6 school districts in Franklin County, Tuscarora has the highest mil rate at $103.42 per thousand of assessed value. Its 11% higher than the next highest school district and 36% higher than the lowest school district.

They can't maintain the buildings on the highest mil rate? Something is wrong with this picture!! I voted NO.

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2663 Location: Chambersburg

Something is certainly wrong with the picture in Tuscarora; and that problem is mismanagement of funds. At least this referendum was going to a specific place the tax-payers knew about.

At the same time, it's still the students that suffer. I don't know, I think a lot of people voted 'no' on principle, but the principle was wrong. You're the ones who voted for the inept school board.