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hanginout
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 77
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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| "Poll: Santorum for governor?"....not a JC/Cristian morals discussion board! |
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AnonyMouse
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Threads evolve. Do you have something to add to get us back on track? |
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anonymous_coward
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 577
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| AnonyMouse wrote: | Jesus lived in a corrupt, secular nation but he never once addressed the Roman government. Even when he had a chance, face to face with Pilate, he simply said "My kingdom is not of this world." A real follower of Jesus follows his example, and Jesus never said a word about the policies of the nation he lived in.
Further, Jesus showed nothing but love and compassion for "sinners." He had words of judgement for the religious establishment, but when confronted with those living outside the religious rules of the time, he offered forgiveness and love. And he never held anyone outside the faith to the standards of the faith. As Dave rightly said, the Bible holds Christian beliefs, and there's nothing in there about forcing anyone who doesn't believe to follow the same rules.
If a Muslim came up to Catwoman or Trey and said, "Here's what you should do because the Koran says so," they would completely blow that person off. And nobody would expect them do to otherwise. Yet when it comes to the Bible, they expect us to structure our government's laws to conform to its teaching. You never saw Jesus do that, which tells us that it is not a Christian activity. |
ding ding ding, we have a winner |
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Dave
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| With Santorum's religious right stance - how can you separate the issues? |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2663
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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His stance was pretty extremist though; lets see, he tried to stick a provision in the No Child Left Behind Act to force all schools to teach "intelligent" design and to force schools to question the theory of evolution (despite there being almost no disagreement on the theory of evolution within the scientific community).
He basically equated homosexuality with incest and beastiality, and said, literally, "right to privacy doesn't exist in my opinion in the United States Constitution."
He blamed all of the victims of Hurricane Katrina for not "heeding the warnings" and even proposed enacting penalties against those who do not, despite the fact that most of the people truly could not get out.
He tried to introduce legislation that would prevent the National Weather Service from reporting the weather because AccuWeather, a private company, was one of his campaign contributors.
Santorum lived in Virginia, but owned a house in Penn Hills, PA. His children attended a "cyber charter school" paid for by the Penn Hills School District; despite not actually living there.
And, finally, in June 2006 Santorum announced, to the press and everyone else in the world, that WMD's had, in fact, been discovered in Iraq thus vindicating his favorite president and proving everyone wrong. Immediately afterward, officials from both the Department of Defense and the White House announced that these were not WMD"s but rather degraded munitions buried before the end of the first Iraq-Gulf War. |
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hanginout
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: Thread desolve... |
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"Threads evolve. Do you have something to add to get us back on track?"
says a-mouse
And they also degenerate as noted...
Let it be said:
"Be who you are and say what you feel...
Because those that matter... don't mind...
And those that mind... don't matter."
EOM |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2663
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Thread desolve... |
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| hanginout wrote: |
Let it be said:
"Be who you are and say what you feel...
Because those that matter... don't mind...
And those that mind... don't matter."
EOM |
I have no idea how that quote applies to this thread. |
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Trey
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Dave wrote: | First, my christian comment had to do with these feral anti-abortionists and their refusal to care once the kid is born.
Second, if YOUR Bible says is a sin to be gay, that that is your belief. Don't try to make it a law. Please don't shove your beliefs down my throat.
Marriage really has 3 parts. The commitment between 2 people. Their commitment with God, and their legal status with government. You are not in that equation so butt out. You don't own God.
Which part of the Bible? Are we looking at "An eye for an eye" or "turn the other cheek". I could probably find cause in the Bible to do just about anything or find a verse that will be against just about anything.
How is it justified to elect someone solely because they are anti-choice while they kill thousands in some dumbass war? Because they want to ban gay marriage it is OK to allow 1 in 4 of the homeless to be veterans. To allow children to not have proper health care? This is the problem with the religious right. They can't see it while the rest of us can see right through them. |
Look Dave, I'm sorry I had an opinion contrary to yours and I'm not trying to shove any beliefts down your throat. For all you know I'm a gay atheist who's picking apart the Bible because it doesn't align with my lifestyle. My point was that if your going to talk about what is or what is not Christian like I don't think the Bible is a good place to look to support a case for gay marriage, Islam is even harsher on this subject. I agree there is alot of vague passages that can be interpreted numerous ways but in the case of homosexuality there are some very clear and distinct passages that really don't leave much to interpretation. Right or wrong this is seen in the writtings of the two predominate religions in the world today. I have no problem with you disagreeing with this or not thinking it's right. I'm just pointing out that religions Christian or otherwise historically don't hold the same view if we are to believe what they have written. |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3093
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: |
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Trey,
I believe you provided a valid point...okay, it was MY interpretation of your comment. I trust that if you disagree, you will let me know.
In regards to guiding your own life, if religious text is necessary, so be it. But one should never use religious script to guide someone else's...It's not your (our) place.
Christianity, and some other religions are missionary in nature >> Convert the non-believers. But if you preach the word and they turn their back then let it be.
Why is it so hard to take the role of an observer? Or better yet, the person choosing to not observe?
Personally, I don't need to confer with a holy book to tell me how to act. If I feel I need forgiveness, I ask the person I wronged. I don't think you find God in a church. I think organized religion is dangerous. It's akin to a mob behavior. I don't think you need religion to have a moral and just government.
I put my faith in mankind...and my faith is tested all the time. 
_________________
Nevermind. |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2663
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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A lot of people interpret the Bible in many, many different ways. This is why there so many sects of Christianity. To say that the Bible has "very clear and distinct passages that don't really leave much to interpretation" is implying that the Bible to be taken as the literal word of God. Some Christians believe that to be the case, others see it as more of a moral roadmap. If one thing is for sure, nothing in the bible is clear and not open for interpretation. It is all open for interpretation because no matter how you see it, someone else likely sees it differently (and all because you disagree with them doesn't necessarily make them wrong and you right).
There is one, very clear passage concerning homosexuality; the anti-gay trump card if you will.
| Leviticus 18:22 wrote: | | "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." |
But as clear as this passage may seem, it's really not very clear at all. Many Biblical scholars are at odds over who this exactly applies to; both men and women? Only sodomy? Does it only apply to Pagan temple rituals (of which this passage was most certainly written to condemn).
Additionally, being part of the old testament, Leviticus is full of an awful lot of abominations that Christians do not recognize, from not eating shellfish to sacrificing cattle. Perhaps you've seen that famous open latter to Dr. Laura.
Other, new testament condemnations of homosexuality are far more vague than the Leviticus verse, so that is used the most despite the entire book of Leviticus and its rules being ignored by Christians for centuries. |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3093
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
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While I do enjoy the Open Letter to Dr. Laura very much, I enjoy the Open Letter to Kansas School Board much better.
If we're going to discuss religions, let's not discriminate against the Pastafarians, hmmmmm?
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
RAmen
_________________
Nevermind. |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2663
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Have you been touched by His noodly appendage? |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3093
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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I exist, therefore I have been noodled.
Arrrrrrggghhh.
_________________
Nevermind. |
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hanginout
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Coppout stated"I have no idea how that quote applies to this thread."
Who asked you!
Who cares about "I"?
The quote applies....
"Be who you are and say what you feel...
Because those that matter, don't mind...
And those that mind, don't matter." |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2663
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| hanginout wrote: | Coppout stated"I have no idea how that quote applies to this thread."
Who asked you!
Who cares about "I"?
The quote applies....
"Be who you are and say what you feel...
Because those that matter, don't mind...
And those that mind, don't matter." |
Well, the quote applies to me not knowing how the quote applies; wouldn't that apply to what you're saying, or who cares about "I?"
The quote is ridiculous; often the people who matter the most are the ones who should mind and the ones who don't mind are often ignorant and naive.
It's the kind of thing a mother says to a little boy who is bullied at school for having a ridiculous haircut, like a rat tail, which is probably her fault anyway. Just give your kid a decent haircut haircut already. To apply it to adult situations of any kind simply doesn't make sense to me.
But, this is just my opinion and you're welcome to tear it apart... after all, no one asked me. |
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