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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2066
Location: Chambersburg
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 Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| munchkin wrote: | | Coppy wrote: | | munchkin wrote: | I guess everyone here forgot how the House passed a measure praising Ramadan
I do not see anyone attacking that action |
Because no one cares. |
I understand. To you it is silly to paraise Christmas but OK to praise Ramadan |
But munchkin, everyone already praised Christmas. What's silly is getting worked up about this. I just don't see what the big deal is (and neither does anyone else) because Christmas is already celebrated by the vast majority of Americans and it would seem silly to introduce legislation just to make that point... oh, but someone did. It's like a bunch of spoiled children upset that another kid is getting a cake on his birthday.
The legislation, for those of you missed it (and you likely did) is the following:
| Quote: | Washington – A resolution recognizing the Muslim holy month of Ramadan and expressing the "deepest respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world" was adopted in the U.S. House of Representatives October 2 by a vote of 376-0.
The resolution acknowledging the importance of Muslims in America, the first of its kind, was introduced by Texas Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson and co-sponsored by 30 legislators, including Representative Keith Ellison of Minnesota. Ellison is the first Muslim to be elected to the U.S. Congress. |
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&x=20071003165444mlenuhret0.9762384&m=October
While our nation has always recognized Christmas, it has never formally recognized Ramadan. I suppose the very small, but extremely right-wing outrage is based on the ignorant perception that all Muslims are terrorist or that this was some sort of slap in the face to Christianity. Seems a bit childish to me, but a conservative Representative wasted no time in introducing similar legislation simply recognizing Christmas in the same manner. Phew, I'm so glad that's out of the way. Now can we vote on important stuff?
Maybe it's not such a bad idea considering every Muslim nation now hates us regardless of our relations prior to the Iraq war. |
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munchkin
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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The viote on the Ramadan bill was 100%
Yet 9 Democrats voted no or did not vote for the Christmas bill
I guess the left was to coddle the Muslims while slapping Americans in the face (again) |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2066
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| munchkin wrote: | The viote on the Ramadan bill was 100%
Yet 9 Democrats voted no or did not vote for the Christmas bill
I guess the left was to coddle the Muslims while slapping Americans in the face (again) |
42 Republicans did not vote on the Ramadan bill.
The subsequent, "Christmas Bill" was what I would consider coddling. |
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munchkin
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| It is the "in" thing these days for the left to bash Christians and Christmas |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2066
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| munchkin wrote: | | It is the "in" thing these days for the left to bash Christians and Christmas |
Actually, it's not. What's "in" for the past couple years has been the right saying that the left are doing this. However, I haven't seen much evidence to support this. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Trump vs. Rosie... you'll find that most politicians don't care about any of this, but your political pundits want you to think they do. |
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munchkin
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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You should read the op-ed in the Washington Post "Hard-liners for Jesus" by Harold Meyerson
It is a hit piece and his hate come thru the page |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2066
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| munchkin wrote: | You should read the op-ed in the Washington Post "Hard-liners for Jesus" by Harold Meyerson
It is a hit piece and his hate come thru the page |
I'd love to read it; is there an online article? If so, please find it and post.
Hate can be subjective too you know. |
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munchkin
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The site is not letting me post the web address - that is why I gave you the information to do a goggle search |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 2486
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Coppy, you got what you wanted. Sorta. 
_________________
If, lately, it seems as though I've been unreasonable, it is only because I have lost all reason. |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2066
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Harold Meyerson; Washington Post wrote: | As Christians across the world prepare to celebrate the birth of Jesus, it's a fitting moment to contemplate the mountain of moral, and mortal, hypocrisy that is our Christianized Republican Party.
There's nothing new, of course, about the Christianization of the GOP. Seven years ago, when debating Al Gore, then-candidate George W. Bush was asked to identify his favorite philosopher and answered "Jesus." This year, however, the Christianization of the party reached new heights with Mitt Romney's declaration that he believed in Jesus as his savior, in an effort to stanch the flow of "values voters" to Mike Huckabee.
My concern isn't the rift that has opened between Republican political practice and the vision of the nation's Founders, who made very clear in the Constitution that there would be no religious test for officeholders in their enlightened new republic. Rather, it's the gap between the teachings of the Gospels and the preachings of the Gospel's Own Party that has widened past the point of absurdity, even as the ostensible Christianization of the party proceeds apace.
The policies of the president, for instance, can be defended in greater or (more frequently) lesser degree within a framework of worldly standards. But if Bush can conform his advocacy of preemptive war with Jesus's Sermon on the Mount admonition to turn the other cheek, he's a more creative theologian than we have given him credit for. Likewise his support of torture, which he highlighted again this month when he threatened to veto House-passed legislation that would explicitly ban waterboarding.
It's not just Bush whose catechism is a merry mix of torture and piety. Virtually the entire Republican House delegation opposed the ban on waterboarding. Among the Republican presidential candidates, only Huckabee and the not-very-religious John McCain have come out against torture, while only libertarian Ron Paul has questioned the doctrine of preemptive war.
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But it's on their policies concerning immigrants where Republicans -- candidates and voters alike -- really run afoul of biblical writ. Not on immigration as such but on the treatment of immigrants who are already here. Consider: Christmas, after all, celebrates not just Jesus's birth but his family's flight from Herod's wrath into Egypt, a journey obviously undertaken without benefit of legal documentation. The Bible isn't big on immigrant documentation. "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger nor oppress him," Exodus says the Lord told Moses on Mount Sinai, "for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."
Yet the distinctive cry coming from the Republican base this year isn't simply to control the flow of immigrants across our borders but to punish the undocumented immigrants already here, children and parents alike.
So Romney attacks Huckabee for holding immigrant children blameless when their parents brought them here without papers, and Huckabee defends himself by parading the endorsement of the Minuteman Project's Jim Gilchrist, whose group harasses day laborers far from the border. The demand for a more regulated immigration policy comes from virtually all points on our political spectrum, but the push to persecute the immigrants already among us comes distinctly, though by no means entirely, from the same Republican right that protests its Christian faith at every turn.
We've seen this kind of Christianity before in America. It's more tribal than religious, and it surges at those times when our country is growing more diverse and economic opportunity is not abounding. At its height in the 1920s, the Ku Klux Klan was chiefly the political expression of nativist Protestants upset by the growing ranks of Catholics in their midst.
It's difficult today to imagine KKKers thinking of their mission as Christian, but millions of them did.
Today's Republican values voters don't really conflate their rage with their faith. Lou Dobbs is a purely secular figure. But nativist bigotry is strongest in the Old Time Religion precincts of the Republican Party, and woe betide the Republican candidate who doesn't embrace it, as John McCain, to his credit and his political misfortune, can attest.
The most depressing thing about the Republican presidential race is that the party's rank and file require their candidates to grow meaner with each passing week. And now, inconveniently, inconsiderately, comes Christmas, a holiday that couldn't be better calibrated to expose the Republicans' rank, fetid hypocrisy. |
I'll keep this short; I agree with this article and, based on that, I think munchkin will find that we are of differing ideologies and what he (she?) finds to be "hatred toward Christians" I find enlightening and well-proposed. I'll lay it out here to let you all judge me as such; I support guest working programs and policy that provides a path toward citizenship for illegal immigrants. I detest waterboarding, or any torture, regardless of who is being interrogated. I firmly and profoundly support a separation of church and state. And I think that "values voters" are clouding the judgment of America by not looking at the important issues while focusing squarely on the insignificant ones. I think that the issue of pre-emptive war, particularly of that in Iraq, is immeasurably short-sighted.
So, the article is not a stretch to me, nor do I see it as an attack on Christianity. Rather, it's an attack on misguided ideology and tactics to win voters based on their emotions and good-nature rather than their best interest. |
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AnonyMouse
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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The "Christian" wing of the Republican party is not Christian in any way that would be recognizable to New Testament followers of Jesus. I like Andrew Sullivan's term "Christianist" better.
This is a group with a radical agenda to create a theocracy in the US and any criticism of their methods is, in their minds, an attack on Christianity. This is effective to the degree that those raising legitimate criticism are sensitive to people of faith and don't want to create insult. It's the same tactic as saying that you don't support the troops if you believe their mission is misguided.
Christianism and Christianity are two completely distinct things:
Christianists seek influence or control over secular civil government through political action — aiming either at a nation governed by Christians or a nation governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law. (from Wikipedia)
Christians are follower of Jesus who seek to spread his message of forgiveness and grace by loving all people and giving special care to those on the margins. |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2066
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Couldn't have said it better Anonymouse |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2066
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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QueenofHearts
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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>rolling up the ramp someone put there so that I can get up on the sopabox...Thanks!<
When, oh when will the Government pass a law making the High Holy days of the Jewish calendar a legal holiday? Some members of my family are Jewish. A belated Happy Chanukkah.
I appauld them (the Government) for finally recognizing Ramadan. There are so many in our Country that celebrate this and 2 other important Muslim holy days, but they are left out in the cold. Some members of my family are Muslim. A belated Blessed Eid and hope you had a safe Hajj.
Our Country was built for those who were being oppressed in their faith. The Church of England squashed anything that they didn't like. Now, the USA seems to be doing the very same, all over again.
I welcome all differing religions. It is what makes us, us. God (Allah, Jehova, Buddah, Tree, Sun, Moon, Sea, Flower, Cockroach, Meatball, etc.) would look at us, as a people and be thoroughly disgusted. He/She/It gave us our brains and hearts to think and feel and to believe in something, if we so choose. Plus, it enlightens us when we look at the other religions out there.
Happy Christmas Eve!!
>rolling down, off the soapbox, had a nice time...nice view up there!< |
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Laughing Man
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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wasn't Christmas origionally some greek gay sex holiday?
and by wasn't it I mean it was... lol. different name though. there was also gifft giving before the gay sex.
_________________
"Nothing is more precious to me than the smile of a child"- Joseph Stalin |
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