The Public Opinion Soapbox

local_bru · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 11 Location: Chambersburg

civil liberties NEED be protected.

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.

Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put an end to personal liberty... and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer?

Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree." ~ as quoted by 'Cesare Beccaria' and a favorite of Thomas Jefferson
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Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open

springhill · Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 177

I could not agree more. I just have a problem with "blanket Issuances" and I believe there should be a personality inventory given to ASSIST
in making decisions on issuing permits to carry and conceal.

I do not believe my civil liberties are protected by civilians toting handguns
in public.

I do believe that civilians toting handguns are in a great position to protect their own rights, or be imprisoned or killed for bad judgement.

I have served and sacrificed my health for your rights. What have you sacrificed for My rights?

Just asking.

My dog has to pee, or i would try to expound. Dog having to pee wins.

local_bru · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 11 Location: Chambersburg

i suppose the quote i interjected was more intended to show my stance on the 2nd Amendment than was it to cover my opinion on this isolated incident.

.. my apologies!

pertaining to Mr. Rotz, i'd say that perhaps it was just poor judgment on his part. had it been me, i probably would have just left the handgun in my car. however! he was within his Rights, and the current Law to do as he did. the revocation of his permit was done, it appears, out of bitter animosity and/or resentment.

i do not believe that citizens at the poll that day felt threatened or were afraid to vote. i would consider now that it was made an issue, people will react with heightened fear and a harbor a general negative reaction about anyone else that may choose to invoke the Right to carry as Mr Rotz did.

as far as the 2nd Amendment goes, i do not agree to the continued effort at minimizing the Rights that we as citizens have. it's a sad day when our law-makers introduce new bills on the basis that someone was 'offended' by firearms.

springhill. i do thank you for serving. i cannot claim that honor. i have, however managed to be a fairly productive individual .. in the process of raising a family, college, and a full time job (i have never sponged welfare from the government, does that count Smile

)
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Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open

springhill · Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 177

Thank you for the reply, and I pretty much agree with it.

Everything you do in life counts.

Sounds to me like you count a lot!

Sorry if i was terse in my reply to your post, but i just get tired of the
neo-con line that the only solution to our crime problem is to arm the entire citizenry with hand-guns. A lot of people sit on the US constitution as if it were their own private Lazee-Boy.

Keep excercising your rights, and more power to you!

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2720 Location: Chambersburg

Was anyone else at the hearing?

I noticed the county attorney made sure to mention that Sheriff Anthony would not react in a similar manner if faced with similar issues. (I wish I could remember his exact wording Confused

It was interesting.)

The judge asking 'them' to give Mr. Rotz his license back asap "...Or right now if you have it!" was cute too.

I realize many people take issue with a firearm at a polling place or the practice of open carry. To me this really came down to a matter of law: Was a law broken? Why is this guy being punished? All the rest of it really fell to the side for me.

I really felt badly that money had to be spent to appeal an action that never should have happened.
I felt badly that a family had to be exposed to unnecessary stress around the holidays. That heartache cannot be undone. Those sleepless nights cannot be retrieved.

I wish Mr. Rotz and his family the best.
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I demand euphoria!

Mavis · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 73

Sleepless nights? Mr. Rotz has had the time of his life strutting about in a spotlight which he himself created by failing to use common sense!

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2720 Location: Chambersburg

I don't know Mr. Rotz.

I don't know his family.

I do know he has a wife and child. I know he has a mother. As I wife, I know how I feel when my husband voices his opinion "loudly with gusto." I do not always disagree with his views, but I wish he'd done things differently. Spouses and Significant Others (even children)can be quite tiring, don't you think?

That does not mean we love them any less. It doesn't mean we stop caring about them and stop wanting to protect them.

I saw the things written about this man's character, intellect and attitude by people who had never met him. It's one thing to say his actions during the incident were poor and leave it at that. But to attack his existence, attack his parenting skills, wish him into a battle zone, etc? That crossed the line.

I thought about how I would feel if that was my husband or son and my heart ached for his family.
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I demand euphoria!

springhill · Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 177

cookieclaygirl · Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1777 Location: shippensburg

springhill · Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 177

he got the memo. right from the ex-sheriff. (in my opinion)

Jo · Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 86 Location: Chambersburg

Regarding Mavis who VERY erroneously assumes that Greg has been enjoying this and has had no sleepless nights and (this one really gets me) "had the time of his life strutting about in a spotlight"...

You could not be more wrong. There have been many sleepless nights, many long discussions and a lot angst over what to do. The decision to appeal was not made lightly.

Regarding springhill who states "I saw his picture on the front page of the paper today. no one could have arranged their face to look more SMUG."

Obviously, you are not someone who knows Greg. Having taken pictures with the man for the last 25 + years I can say with complete confidence that look is his 'Hurry up and take the D*** picture so I can get out of here' false smile look. Was he pleased to have the card returned? Of course. Was he glad it was over? MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW! Was he looking for attention? Nope. Not that kind of guy. He talked to the press and was on camera because it was expected of him. His supporters gave their time, energy and money to help him regain his permit. Greg just wants to live his life and do his thing.

Regarding .45chel who said "I thought about how I would feel if that was my husband or son and my heart ached for his family." and "I saw the things written about this man's character, intellect and attitude by people who had never met him. It's one thing to say his actions during the incident were poor and leave it at that. But to attack his existence, attack his parenting skills, wish him into a battle zone, etc? That crossed the line."

Thank you for your empathy. Greg is a smart man. He knows the law and follows it. He has character. He knows what he believes and stands up for it. Attitude is a matter of perspective, as you can see from springhill's comments and others. Personal attacks are petty and the fruit of ignorant (meaning uninformed, not illiterate, dumb, etc...) minds. I'm not going to extol all the things that make him who he is, but I do know he's a great guy, a loving (not perfect, but definitely top knotch) husband and a caring, protective father.
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Me thinks that the moment my legs begin to move, my thoughts begin to flow. ~ Henry David Thoreau on hiking

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2720 Location: Chambersburg

My posts still don't show up on Topix, so could some pass on the fact that I am loving the discussion over there! Yes, we could do with out the name-calling, but the points are wonderful!!

Say what you will about Mr. Rotz but he's got a great group of friends and supporters!! (take that back...don't say anything more about Mr. Rotz, let's talk about the issue and not the man.)

However, I object the the terms left and liberal being equal to right removal. The Patriot Act, the warrantless wire-tapping, the suspension of habeus corpus were all enacted by a fear-filled republican controlled congress.

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/chambersburg-public-opinion/TB2FA2OF7PT4P77I6
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I demand euphoria!

springhill · Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 177

Well good luck, point by point jo...

and Good Job, Gang!!