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Bobo
Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 173 Location: Chambersburg
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: Huge Greene Township development |
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| Quote: | Plan for 757 homes near Chambersburg Mall recommended for approval
By JIM HOOK Senior writer
GREENE TOWNSHIP -- A 757-home development featuring more multi-family units than single-family homes recently received preliminary approval from Greene Township.
The 294 houses, 146 duplexes and 317 townhouses in Woodland Hills would be developed in 20 years on the former Robert Rector farm near Fayetteville, according to plans from developer Black Gap Estates L.P., State College.
Woodland Hills would join the Highlands of Greenvillage, Penn National and Scot-Greene Estates as the largest developments in the Chambersburg area.
"The market is slow-moving," Guilford Water Authority Manager Larry Heck said. "It may be a couple of years before anything gets started down there."
In 2007, building permits in Franklin County were off 30 percent from a year earlier, according to Clem Malot of Commonwealth Code Inspection Service Inc., which issues building permits for municipalities across the county.
In Greene Township, single-family home starts were off 37 percent, from 149 in 2006 to 94 in 2007. Starts of multi-family structures increased -- from 27 duplexes in 2006 to 49 in 2007 and from 22 townhouse units in 2006 to 24 in 2007.
The Greene Township Planning Commission recommended on Jan. 14 that Greene Township Supervisors approve the Woodland Hills plan. The plans call for about 10 percent fewer houses and townhouses than the initial plans submitted nearly a year ago.
The homes would have public water and sewer:
- The sewer plan needs approval from the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection and Greene Township Municipal Authority. The most recent (Oct. 13) letter from the sewer authority indicated only that plans were under review. The authority manages sewer lines in the township. Sewage from the township is treated at the Chambersburg wastewater treatment plant. The municipalities have been updating their sewerage planning (Act 537) documents.
- "We're going to serve them," Heck said. "We have the capacity now. We're drilling more wells and we're always looking for more water."
Developers, however, must install a larger water main for the final half of the project, according to water authority engineers Buchart Horn Inc., York.
The development is projected to reach its halfway mark (338 units through 10 phases) around 2018 with build-out of all 20 phases in 2027.
The townhouses would be concentrated around the two entrances to Woodland Hills, one off Brookens Road and the other off Mount Pleasant Road. The first 63 units off Mount Pleasant Road are expected to be built in 2011 and the first 24 off Brookens Road in 2013.
The development, adjacent to Mountain Shadows, reaches Black Gap Road (Pa. 997), but would have no road accessing Pa. 997. S&A Homes, State College, is developing Mountain Shadows and has a major role in Woodhill Estates.
Once all utility agreements are completed, the plan will go to the board of supervisors, according to township Zoning Officer Travis Brookens.
"The board has to make the final decision once all reviewing agencies have approved their respective concerns," Brookens said.
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Has anyone been following the online comments about this? It's pretty interesting. People are finally wising up to the costs and negative impact on quality of life on this sort of thing.
One poster asked if no one else had noticed the drop in groundwater in this area. How true! I spend a lot of time in Michaux State Forest, Caledonia, etc. The streams definitely don't recharge like they used to and are much lower than in previous years - moreso each year. I don't know how long these officials like Larry Heck can expect to keep tapping more and more water before something gives. Seems crazy to me. And the traffic on Rt. 997 - truly a dangerous road not designed to carry the traffic that's on it now - will only become more of a deathtrap. I guess no one (in municipal or state government) is watching, or no one cares.
We've had this development discussion before. But what struck me when I read this story is the fact that, just one week ago in this area where these houses are being proposed, I saw a bald eagle on top of a utility pole on Mt. Pleasant Road. How many eagles do you think we will see after they put in 294 houses, 146 duplexes and 317 townhouses?
One more thing. Didn't the Rectors leave this land to Dickinson College, which then promptly sold it for development? Can anyone confirm? _________________ The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago... had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands. ~Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923 |
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Coppy

Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2234 Location: Chambersburg
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, this is a massive amount of homes and it doesn't really make much sense to me. Current, older homes on the market in this area aren't selling because owners are unwilling to drop prices. New homes are left empty and construction is at a stand still with demand dropping. We're in the middle of a lending a mortgage crisis that may not have even hit this area as hard as others yet, and we're steadily heading toward a recession. This, on top of a groundwater problem and no public water supply to current Greene residents and they want to build nearly 800 homes?
As for the water levels; well, I think there are a lot more factors at play there than just consumption. Summers have been warmer and drier, snow fall is less than usual. That's beside the point though, no matter the reason, if water levels are low, that's a lot of homes to supply.
Now, things can be done; the places they're building homes these days is pretty amazing. I can understand the concerns over landscape, farmland preservation and environmental impact, but I figure that's not really for me to decide; what I do understand is simple economics and without buyers for this many homes, I don't see how this many units could possibly become anything other than "low-income." Unless that's the plan. |
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hanginout
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 77
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: Housing glut.... |
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<800 homes over 20 years....lets see, <800/20=<40 homes per year...wow, a housing glut.
That is, if they even build them all.
Build them and they will buy! |
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.45chel

Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2709 Location: Chambersburg
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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I don't consider this smart development. _________________ I demand euphoria! |
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cookieclaygirl

Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1767 Location: shippensburg
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| i wish ppl would renovate more. that's what i did. ppl just don't want to take the extra time to 'fix things up' any more....we're (as a state and nation) going to have some space issues soon.... |
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anonymous_coward

Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 485
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we're going to have space, water, and all the other issues due to population growth. All of the zoning, rent controls, housing holds, in the world can't do anything about the population boom and the need to house, feed, and water them. This isn't an issue just for Chambersburg. Keeping people out of one area only shifts the problem to a neighboring area. |
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Coppy

Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2234 Location: Chambersburg
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| anonymous_coward wrote: | | I think we're going to have space, water, and all the other issues due to population growth. All of the zoning, rent controls, housing holds, in the world can't do anything about the population boom and the need to house, feed, and water them. This isn't an issue just for Chambersburg. Keeping people out of one area only shifts the problem to a neighboring area. |
A uterus is not a clown car. (they have four more since this picture)/
Last edited by Coppy on Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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.45chel

Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2709 Location: Chambersburg
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hey!!!
It is my God-given Right to spit out babies, whether I can pay for them or not!!
I'll need an army to do my bidding when the War on Christmas comes! _________________ I demand euphoria! |
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cookieclaygirl

Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1767 Location: shippensburg
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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ROFL!!!!
zomfg! funnnnny! ppl scare me. i will stay indoors and they will not bother me. (haha).... |
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ANON22
Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 81
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'd love to claim those kids at tax time!!!  |
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.45chel

Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2709 Location: Chambersburg
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Not to be a bummer, but I believe there is a limit on the amount of kids you can claim on your taxes (4, I think) BUT the new economic relief package that the pols are talking about is supposedly going to be $300 per child
I kinda of blank out when they start talking about it because I don't want to pop a blood vessel. (Where are we going to get the money to do that?) _________________ I demand euphoria! |
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fordman
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 18 Location: SomewheresouthofCburg
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| .45chel wrote: | Not to be a bummer, but I believe there is a limit on the amount of kids you can claim on your taxes (4, I think) BUT the new economic relief package that the pols are talking about is supposedly going to be $300 per child
I kinda of blank out when they start talking about it because I don't want to pop a blood vessel. (Where are we going to get the money to do that?) |
Higher gas prices..soccer moms will need the $300 to put gas into that suburbian army of Escalades,Land Rovers,Hummers,Excursions etc. needed to transport the kids through the rough terrain we have in this area. |
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Brian
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 31 Location: Chambersburg, PA
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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I live off 997/White Church Rd.
We need more patrolling 997 to decrease speeders (going 45-50mph I'm even ok with... but 70-80mph? jeesh). Then people wonder why we have so many accidents on 997 by White Church Rd. (lets not forget our wonderful recent dump truck accident). I've had a car totaled by being rear-ended trying to turn left onto White Church Rd. off of 997. Every time I make that turn I fear now the same might happen.
There is no way Greene can handle this expansion at present. Hopefully there will be calculated improvements in funding for schools, roads, fire depts, etc. (however I find this unlikely when the intersection by McDonalds and by the Mall can't even handle evening traffic because whoever setup the traffic lighting system there was completely incompetent).
All I have to say is if they plan on building 750+ houses out here they better have the Scotland exit bridge done in time and not take what seemed like 2 years with the Marion bridge.
-Brian _________________ On The Scene Blog: http://blogs.publicopiniononline.com/onthescene/
Photography Website: http://www.tellerphotography.com/ |
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me
Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 119
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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"There is no way Greene can handle this expansion at present. Hopefully there will be calculated improvements in funding for schools, roads, fire depts, etc. (however I find this unlikely when the intersection by McDonalds and by the Mall can't even handle evening traffic because whoever setup the traffic lighting system there was completely incompetent).
All I have to say is if they plan on building 750+ houses out here they better have the Scotland exit bridge done in time and not take what seemed like 2 years with the Marion bridge. "
Brian, some of your post is incorrect or a bit off.
First, the I-81 bridge and lights at Exit 20 are PennDot's and not the twp, so blame them. The Twp has tried and lost that fight many times over.
The bridge at Swamp Fox is again, a PennDot error. There was MORE damage found once repairs started and PennDot caused the delay, not the contractor.
The Twp does review and approve developments, etc per the Zoning, Planning and Ordinances in place, so if they're all met, there is not much they can do. _________________ Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else thereafter. |
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anonymous_coward

Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 485
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| me wrote: | "There is no way Greene can handle this expansion at present. Hopefully there will be calculated improvements in funding for schools, roads, fire depts, etc. (however I find this unlikely when the intersection by McDonalds and by the Mall can't even handle evening traffic because whoever setup the traffic lighting system there was completely incompetent).
All I have to say is if they plan on building 750+ houses out here they better have the Scotland exit bridge done in time and not take what seemed like 2 years with the Marion bridge. "
Brian, some of your post is incorrect or a bit off.
First, the I-81 bridge and lights at Exit 20 are PennDot's and not the twp, so blame them. The Twp has tried and lost that fight many times over.
The bridge at Swamp Fox is again, a PennDot error. There was MORE damage found once repairs started and PennDot caused the delay, not the contractor.
The Twp does review and approve developments, etc per the Zoning, Planning and Ordinances in place, so if they're all met, there is not much they can do. |
they have 20 years to do all that, I'm sure they can handle it. |
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