The Public Opinion Soapbox

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Chambersburg

Peggy Noonan was on Daily Show last night (I watched tonight at Cool

and she made an interesting point about Edwards. She thinks that a lot of people who supported Edwards supported him as an alternative to Hillary rather than Obama and his lack of participation in Super Tuesday may actually give votes to Obama rather than Hillary.

He also implied that if it comes down to a race between Obama and McCain, that either candidate could represent a positive change in the country since neither seems to "tow the party line," as he put it.

anonymous_coward · Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 472

i definetely agree. mccain is an actual statesman. remember when he was passing the mccain-feingold act. If only he had won in 2000, we'd be so much better off now.

Bobo · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 173 Location: Chambersburg

I'm really tired of all this, "I didn't vote to go to war with Iraq and she did" crap. Does anyone remember the climate of the country at the time? How the Bush Administration had us all believing Saddam had nuclear weapons? Anyone who didn't vote for the war was seen as an extreme liberal - and we all know how the U.S. as a whole feels about liberals, unfortunately.

I do not see Clinton's vote for the war as a big deal. Since then, she has been on the front lines criticizing Bush and demanding troop withdrawals. She was the one I saw on TV blasting Bush over the war time and again - not Obama. To my way of thinking, she made a decision the majority - obviously - of other folks in Congress made, and now she obviously feels differently (as most of us do). So what's the big deal?

I'm more concerned about the economy and the environment, which I heard her mention specifically last night but I don't recall Obama talking about (the environment, that is).
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The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago... had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands. ~Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923

.45chel · Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 2487 Location: Chambersburg

Bobo,
I think you're feeling my frustration. I'm trying not to hold grudges. I'm trying to shake it off because I know that I prefer any Democrat to a Republican this year.
Hillary has been beat up in the press and it's obvious of the match up the media wants to see.

McCain draws in independents and moderates. I really like him in 2000, but he has betrayed his 'straight talk, stick to my values' attitude in the past few years just so he would have a chance in the primaries. I don't know if I want a monkey who dances every time a political party plays the organ.
What about the people?

sigh.
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If, lately, it seems as though I've been unreasonable, it is only because I have lost all reason.

AnonyMouse · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 356

Bobo · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 173 Location: Chambersburg

Ah Mouse! I love Salon. Great online mag.
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The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago... had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands. ~Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Chambersburg

There's aren't specific issues or stances that really push me toward Obama, from Hillary. I always thought they were both far more moderate than John Edwards. I think they're both sort of saying the same things while pointing fingers at each other.

I agree that it isn't fair for Obama to continually bring up the fact that Hillary voted for war while he wasn't even in the Senate at the time. But, I will concede to him that he spoke out against the war very early on, before even being elected to the Senate. As a State Senator, Obama was quoted as saying at a rally on Oct 26, 2002:

Torgo · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:

Obama's opposition to the war is pretty much beyond question.

If Hillary's supporters have a problem with her vote, well, I don't blame them. Even if it was only to grease her slide to the right in the general election, which I doubt given her connections to the Council on Foreign Relations folks.

Must be a tough place to be.
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"The Master would not approve..."

Coppy · Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Chambersburg

I agree Torgo; Hillary's position on the war matters more now than it did in 2002. And I see the ability to change positions on an issue based on information and facts a sign of intelligence; while I see blind support despite those things a sign of ignorance.