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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3043
Location: Chambersburg
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 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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You are quite clearly really, really, really, really mean and hostile along with being incredibly jealous of my tasty, unassailable nuggets of profound wisdom.
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Torgo
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 523
Location: Manos: The Hands of Fate
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hahaha, guilty.
Oh wait, you didn't forget a smiley again, did you?
*ponders anxiously
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Bobo
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Torgo wrote: | | By crying and whining and calling people cynics and conspiracy theorists every time they oppose your arguments, you make others who may care about your feelings reluctant to do so, no matter how easy or tempting it may be. |
I was not making an argument! I was merely making an observation (a la AnonyMouse). Your response was to accuse me of being underhanded and criticize my character. That's not the same as constructively disagreeing with someone. Why you can't see that, I do not understand. You seem fairly intelligent. But once again, you get personal with the references to "crying and whining." At any rate, I'm relieved you will ignore me because frankly, I felt like I was being targeted.
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The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago... had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands. ~Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923 |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2569
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| My nuggets of profound wisdom are often friend to a golden brown and, although easy to dismantle, taste great with barbecue sauce and honey mustard. |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3043
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Coppy wrote: | | My nuggets of profound wisdom are often friend to a golden brown and, although easy to dismantle, taste great with barbecue sauce and honey mustard. |
Mmmmm wisdom nuggets.
I like mine spicy.
Have to be careful with the your recipe though a few wrong ingredients and that wisdom'll go right through ya'
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2569
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Brain fart? |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3043
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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ear diarrhea
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3043
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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groan.
It just won't die.
| Quote: | Letter to the editor: Editorial puzzles billboard sponsor
Thank you for your editorial, "Our view: Defensive billboard goes a bit overboard" (Public Opinion Online, February 10, 2008). I'm very glad you're letting people in the Chambersburg community know about the two "dueling billboards" and challenging them to consider the signs' meaning.
However, I'm surprised you seem to find the atheists' billboard so harmless, while you seem to take offense at our sign. The atheists' sign says, "Imagine No Religion." Perhaps if our sign had said, "Imagine No Atheists," it would be easier for you to see why I am so troubled by the atheists' message.
"Imagine No Religion," they urge, and you say you find that non-judgmental. Really? To me, the judgment of America's largest atheist group seems obvious: They think America would be a better place if all people of faith would simply disappear. Where should we go? Where do they want to send us? I suppose it would make their crusade to ban religion easier, but I don't plan to go quietly, and neither do the 64,000 supporters of In God We Trust.
Instead of rushing to condemn people who want to defend freedom of religious expression by calling us "manipulative" and "craven" as your editorial has done, perhaps you should start asking a few questions that go right to the heart of this matter.
First, how is "Imagine No Religion" different from "Imagine No Christians" or "Imagine No Jews"? The anti-religious bigotry is more obvious, but otherwise the statements seem interchangeable to me. (Now are you starting to see why we find the atheists' sign so troubling? I'm not sure where they're headed with this line of argument, but I don't like its direction one bit.)
Second, "Imagine No Religion" also means "Imagine No Mother Theresa," "Imagine No Martin Luther King, jr.," and "Imagine No Ghandi." Do you really believe America -- or the world -- would be a better place if the atheists got their wish? Are you starting to get the picture?
Regrettably, religious people are more often defined in the media these days by a caricature that is not very generous, and I assure you it does not apply to In God We Trust.
We are not even a religious group. There are already plenty of religious groups who want to be involved in politics, and that is not what we are. Instead, we are a political group that is concerned with defending the traditional role of God and religion in American public life, because we believe it makes America a better place -- for believers and non-believers alike. I urge fair-minded people who agree with me to visit our Web site at www.InGodWeTrustUSA.org for more information.
We live in a diverse country, and In God We Trust believes it is wrong to try to imagine an America where the people who disagree with us have all disappeared, or been sent away. History is full of bad examples like that, and they didn't work. Instead, why not try to work out our differences?
We don't address racial issues by all pretending to be black. We don't address gender differences by all pretending to be women. So why on earth should we address our Constitution's guarantees of religious freedom by all pretending to be atheists? Now that's going overboard.
The Rt. Rev. Council Nedd II
Chairman, In God We Trust
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No ability to comment on the letter on Topix just yet, so:
DUDE! You are acting like a caricature! And stop stealing posts from all the atheists on Topix to use in your argument against atheists, it's tacky.
Edited to add: I responded on Topix, but it just wasn't as enjoyable. Not because I agree with anything he wrote (I wish I could squish his 'ead >makes pinching motion with index and thumb< No, I just enjoy exchanging dialogue (or just observing dialogue) with people who are way, way above me.
As much as I hate this 'cause of the reputation Chambersburg is well on it's way to claiming (I live here too, ya' know?!)---if (when) this sh*tstorm dies, all the smart people are going to stop posting on our section and we will just be stuck with...regulars.
Ugh.
It's nice to have new viewpoints and ideas (REAL ideas, not the ones we typically see---like mine)
sigh
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cookieclaygirl
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 2136
Location: shippensburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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i'll double that groan...
and also... /comfort chel |
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2569
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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The billboard said "Imagine No Religion" not "Imagine No Christians."
See, this argument is so absurd, it's beyond understanding. I'm realizing more and more that some people are just religious nuts. Simple as that and I'm not afraid to say it.
Must be tough for the Rev. Council Nedd IIIVI#(@#op or whatever to live in a society that's nearly 90% Christian. "Oh, dear me, the media is persecuting us again!" |
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cookieclaygirl
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 2136
Location: shippensburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Coppy wrote: |
See, this argument is so absurd, it's beyond understanding. I'm realizing more and more that some people are just religious nuts. Simple as that and I'm not afraid to say it.
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and as far as that goes, anything religious topic wise will be jumped upon instantly without regards to thinking through...just fighting it for religions sake.... just my humble opionion. |
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.45chel
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 3043
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| cookieclaygirl wrote: |
and as far as that goes, anything religious topic wise will be jumped upon instantly without regards to thinking through...just fighting it for religions sake.... just my humble opionion. |
You are, quite naturally, completely right.
I'm trying to work on my self-control (you'd be amazed at the improvements I've made.)
I think the biggest disappointment, for me, is that, with the exception of Anonymouse ('Mouse, why must you always be the exception?! In a good way,of course.  ) and maybe one other individual, the Christians aren't looking very good. There are thoughtful, intelligent, religious persons in this community. I have spoken to them. They do exist.
I suppose I will have to mosey back over to Topix to see what has happened since early this morning...blech.
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Coppy
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2569
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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I think this story addressed all of the concerns of the previous one. Thank you PO!
| Roscoe Barnes III wrote: | The new billboard on U.S. 30 West that questions the patriotism of atheists is unfair, untrue and actually promotes hate, according to the co-president of Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Claims by Kegerreis Outdoor Advertising of being misled by FFRF are also untrue, Annie Laurie Gaylor said.
Gaylor shared her views Monday in response to a recent story about dueling billboards on the subject of faith and religion. Soon after the sign by FFRF, "Imagine No Religion," was removed from U.S. 30 West near Sunnyway Foods, it was replaced by a sign with an apology, including the words, "In God We Trust."
The new sign was put up by Kegerreis, whose senior account executive told Public Opinion she had been misled by FFRF. Last Thursday, an Arlington, Va.-based group by the name of In God We Trust, put up a new sign on U.S. 30 near Food Lion, with the words, "Why Do Atheists Hate America?"
Before the publication of Saturday's story on the billboard, Public Opinion called the office of FFRF and left a message requesting a phone call in return. Gaylor said Monday that the call came in after the office had closed.
Apology and accusation
Last week, Dusky A. Chilcote, senior account executive for Kegerreis, said the company was concerned about the "Imagine No Religion" sign, which it had hosted. She said that she was personally hurt by the deception of the sponsor, who allegedly led her to believe the sign was presented by a local church.
"That's not possible,"
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Gaylor said. "I have no idea why she didn't understand what we do. When she said a local church, it makes no sense. ... I did nothing to mislead her."
According to Gaylor, Chilcote knows the organization's name, Freedom From Religion Foundation, and she knows the banner, "Imagine No Religion."
"I'm happy to have the billboards up locally," Gaylor said "Whatever mistakes she made were her own mistakes."
That Kegerreis Outdoor Advertising would put up a billboard offering an apology after removing the one by FFRF, struck Gaylor as rather odd. However, she said her organization does have a contract and she's happy to see it fulfilled.
She's also pleased to see the issue continues to be newsworthy, she said.
FFRF is upfront about its intention, Gaylor explained. Although she acknowledged that in the past she has dealt with people who were so religious, they couldn't hear what she was saying.
For instance, instead of hearing "Freedom from Religion," they heard "Freedom for Religion." Gaylor said the billboard was not sponsored by a church, but by FFRF, which signed the contract.
"I'm very confused by her confusion," Gaylor said. "We are totally upfront and unashamed and have never been mistaken in over 30 years of being a church."
Gaylor said she's not interested in any kind of war, but it would be nice if Kegerreis issued an apology.
Atheists and patriotism
Gaylor said that atheists do not hate America, although some religious people hate atheists. She cited a study that showed that some opinions about atheists haven't changed since the 1960s.
Prejudiced attitudes toward them are sometimes similar to those directed toward minorities, she said.
"We are the most demonized minority in the country, according to the study," Gaylor said.
For some reason, discrimination toward atheists seems more acceptable, she said, adding that people sometimes suggest that atheists have no morals and should be run out of the country.
"We are very patriotic and think we should go back to our secular roots," she said. "The founders invested their sovereignty in 'We the People,' and not some kind of supernatural sovereignty."
They believed in separation of church and state.
On the issue of patriotism, Gaylor pointed to some of the nation's founding fathers and patriotic leaders. Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine and James Madison were deists and not classical Christians at all, she said.
As such, they were closer to atheism, she said. Paine, the author of The Age of Reason, basically repudiated the Bible and suggested the God of the Bible is a monster, she said.
Interestingly enough, Paine was also the first person in the country to propose the abolition of slavery, she said.
In terms of the constitution, Gaylor said there is no "God" or reference to God in the constitution. Yet, so many people are ignorant to that fact, she said.
That said, Gaylor noted she was not pleased with the new sign by IGWT. In fact, she found it to be distasteful: "That sign is much more hateful than our sign. ... To say that is a really hateful kind of statement. These people are really threatened."
The landscape of Chambersburg is littered with religious slogans and crosses, and churches on every corner, Gaylor said: "What's the harm of one little billboard?"
More signs planned
FFRF is planning to post another billboard in the Harrisburg area, according to Gaylor. That, however, doesn't impress Bishop Council Nedd, chairman of IGWT, who lives in Harrisburg.
Nedd said that if FFRF wants to continue putting up billboards, "more power to them."
"If there was no religion, there would be no Mother Teresa, no Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi," he said. "Would the world be better off without them? If (FFRF) wants to spend all their money putting up billboards, they're more than welcome to do so."
When contacted by Public Opinion on Monday, Chilcote referred questions to Eric Murr, spokesperson for Kegerreis. Murr did not return a phone message left by a reporter.
Six local ministers were also contacted for their perspective on this issue. However, all of them declined to comment. |
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cookieclaygirl
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 2136
Location: shippensburg
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| .45chel wrote: |
I think the biggest disappointment, for me, is that, with the exception of Anonymouse ('Mouse, why must you always be the exception?! In a good way,of course. ) and maybe one other individual, the Christians aren't looking very good.
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i think the problem is that 'they' (for lack of better wording) get 'riled' up and irate at any area of biblical concern that they forget to calm down, read it and process the info. fights for the sake of fighting.
my problem usually is that, while yes i have some religion in my background, i prefer to think things thru without someone or something (say, a book) telling me what to think. generalizing on this, i am aware, but it is how i feel.
religion topics usually get me in trouble.
so i will go back to lurking on this thread.
*giggle* |
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Bobo
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Chambersburg
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Good job, Roscoe.
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The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago... had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands. ~Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923 |
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